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View Poll Results: How do you feel about Sundren's Leveling Pace?
It's too fast. 10 18.52%
It's just right. 29 53.70%
It's too slow. 15 27.78%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11  
Old 06-25-2014
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I've made a 20 in 3 days, just depends if you have a full group and the time to spend.
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  #12  
Old 06-25-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
Yeah, but there again, the whole timezone thing. It's just not worth alienating our non-left-side-of-the-Atlantic players.
I really appreciate this. I am the only person on the server about 40% of the time when I log in. Or... I log in and there are two or three people in game, but AFK.

I've written on this topic before. I hated when there were level caps right up until the point that there weren't level caps anymore. I found it more rewarding taking 26 server days and 1 RL year to make 20th level with Cesar. But I fully understand the direction the server has taken, thus deciding not to return to that limiting factor.

I will adjust to whatever level pace is set by the staff. I would like the daily epic quests to continue in some capacity. They have enabled those who are willing into log into the server everyday to reach epic levels in 3.5 months. Additional levels take a little longer.

I do not believe this is too quick because the daily quests does not benefit the casual player as much as someone dedicated enough to log in everyday.

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  #13  
Old 06-25-2014
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Good day all,

I would say we currently have the 'just right' mount of XP - on average. But that is across our currently three sources of XP. the way I see it, these three sources are:
  1. Killing Mobs - very fast XP, particularly if you know how to kill what your killing and where to find them.
  2. RP 'Trickle' - Very slow XP, granted more or less from standing around outside of AFK, does not prevent use of other methods.
  3. Event/Quest Rewards - Low to moderate XP for lower levels, relies on having a DM in your timezone and on DM generosity. Quests currently are all of the "Go somewhere & kill stuff" variety - see point 1.
My observation is that since the primary source of XP on the server is killing stuff, the people who are good at killing stuff and knowing where to kill the 'good stuff' would experience exceedingly increased rates of XP gain. On the flip side, anyone who sits down and RP - or has no-one to RP with, a valid concern with low pop numbers - is rather effectively getting a dramatically visible handicap in terms of tangible character progression.

I personally would advise against nerfing the rate of XP gain without modifying or increasing the number of potential and viable means of gaining experience. Elusa had a rather solid suggestion earlier:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elusa View Post
I have a few suggestions: First, bump up the RP exp. 30 exp ticks are a joke when you can go out and kill 3 mobs instead. Second, decrease the bonus exp for defeating mobs that have a higher level than you. The reason I say this is because power-builds, who are often (but not always) RP minimalists, can breeze through levels because their builds are just that broken. Or else they exploit some loophole in the mechanics.
: But it doesn't exactly reward interaction.

I could see a potential additional source in the strength of our robust Faction system, which seems largely untapped. Critique in the past has been that faction leaders seem largely powerless without DMs to grant them power. In brief suggestion, perhaps it could be arranged that higher tiers of faction members could be used to offer a greater variety of non-material rewards to lower levels and ranks - both Rep and XP. As has been broached before, the Thane of Whurest needing to decide which single individual out of the team of adventurers helping him today gets to be recognized doesn't really make sense, when it would be the team getting recognition. Similarly, a dichotomy appears wherein Bozo the Clown can give you XP for delivering a box to the next town over, but the Grand Marshal of Sestra needs to file 16 forms and wait till the next blue moon before he can get clearance to have someone else grant XP for single-handedly saving his arse from a crack-team of legion assassins or securing a critical item while not overseen by DM. Granting trust and responsibility to faction leaders may be a valid solution to making a more interactive and interconnected world, but discussion there might be beyond the scope of this poll.

TL : DR - The current primary means of getting XP is killing stuff. Ergo, people who kill stuff well get to level fast, while people who can't or don't kill stuff level slow. Solution may be to offer alternate means of character advancement that doesn't (directly) involve killing stuff.
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  #14  
Old 06-25-2014
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So far, everyone's been pretty thoughtful and constructive. I appreciate it.

I think, ultimately, I'd like to bring monster xp down and RP xp up, but not if it's against the wishes of the majority of the playerbase.

The time-released level cap, as it once was, was pretty punishing. Basically, it dictated how people would spend their time on logging in, which is never something we want to do. Obviously, we want people to RP, but if you feel like logging in and killing some orcs between class and work, that's cool, too.

I agree that we need to incentivize RP more, and hopefully in a way that doesn't require significant DM oversight, but I also feel that the possibility of monster-grinding to 20 in 3 days, as gamestarmike mentioned, is problematic; if the low-level content can be bypassed so quickly, and it remains so, wouldn't we be better served making the starting level 20 and refitting all of the areas for 20+?

Obviously, we're not going to do that, but the way we're currently operating, it feels like Sundren "starts" at level 20, and really, I'd like Sundren to feel like it "starts" at 3, or maybe 6.
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  #15  
Old 06-25-2014
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Hate to break it to you, Kit, but we've tried that in several forms. We've bounced around the idea of giving faction leaders the ability to rep more than once, or to offer greater rep per day (which is once per in game day, not reset).

But the critique that DMs have left faction leaders powerless is without merit. We have been more than accommodating to faction leaders wishing to alter ranks, grant rank, or offer xp for faction RP. Further still, we've altered the structure of the faction system as a whole to allow PC's to lead factions, rather than the NPC based system we have had before.

The critique I would suggest is that some leaders of factions treat their positions as a casual appointment, rather than a responsibility to their fellow players. Not all, mind you. But in cases where a PC has been offered a position at the head of a faction and then left without making arrangements for their successor, the faction tends to fall apart.

As for xp, I would be in favor of adding RP xp to the ticker, but also xp for actions such as crafting/resource gathering. Not more than how much you would gain fighting mobs, but enough per day to make up for a short dungeon run.
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  #16  
Old 06-25-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [DM] Grinning Death View Post
As for xp, I would be in favor of adding RP xp to the ticker, but also xp for actions such as crafting/resource gathering. Not more than how much you would gain fighting mobs, but enough per day to make up for a short dungeon run.
This would be really cool. There are a handful of characters (Angus was once one of them) that when you log on there are a lot of players asking for your assistance with crafting. Of course you help them, that is why you made that character... but to receive XP for doing it would be epic.


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  #17  
Old 06-25-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [DM] Grinning Death View Post
Hate to break it to you, Kit, but we've tried that in several forms. We've bounced around the idea of giving faction leaders the ability to rep more than once, or to offer greater rep per day (which is once per in game day, not reset).

But the critique that DMs have left faction leaders powerless is without merit. We have been more than accommodating to faction leaders wishing to alter ranks, grant rank, or offer xp for faction RP. Further still, we've altered the structure of the faction system as a whole to allow PC's to lead factions, rather than the NPC based system we have had before.

The critique I would suggest is that some leaders of factions treat their positions as a casual appointment, rather than a responsibility to their fellow players. Not all, mind you. But in cases where a PC has been offered a position at the head of a faction and then left without making arrangements for their successor, the faction tends to fall apart.

As for xp, I would be in favor of adding RP xp to the ticker, but also xp for actions such as crafting/resource gathering. Not more than how much you would gain fighting mobs, but enough per day to make up for a short dungeon run.
No hating required. I may have chosen sub-optimal wording, and apologize for any confusion.
I'm aware of the many changes to the system from what it once was, and appreciate all of them. I also fully understand the requirement for intensive testing before application in the production environment and it's inevitable breaking there anyway. The suggestion was primarily a means of highlighting a potential means of player-interaction-based XP gain, such as via player-initiated mini-quests - and I can certainly see it would need a lot of analysis and trial before being considered fit for use, which may not be optimal use of limited resources.

As for the latter portion of your post: I would definitely appreciate the addition of non-destructive means of character advancement. :-)
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  #18  
Old 06-25-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [DM] Grinning Death View Post

the critique that DMs have left faction leaders powerless is without merit. We have been more than accommodating to faction leaders wishing to alter ranks, grant rank, or offer xp for faction RP. Further still, we've altered the structure of the faction system as a whole to allow PC's to lead factions, rather than the NPC based system we have had before.
I have to echo this. Because as a leader the staff have been above and beyond willing to help. The issue that I have seen is that if I provide a member with a task (Not all), they either don't follow through, or just stop playing, or the DM that was going to do it gets burnt out. It is just the nature of the game. If it does not get done then, I will either do it myself (if it is essential) or not do anything about it.

That being said, the core group of the Black Hand are incredibly dedicated, and we all are working our buts off to make the faction better.

More on topic. Every one has made great points thus far.
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  #19  
Old 07-02-2014
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Something I have seen on others servers is a system that decreases the amount of XP you get progressively as you start killing things. You start off getting 100% and it goes down as you run through a dungeon. Then, while you are either offline or RP'ing you 'regenerate' so once at full strength you can go out and get 100% killing mobs. You regenerate faster if you are RP'ing than offline. I enjoyed how that system worked. I felt that it greatly discouraged grinding, but it still allowed for a reasonable rate of leveling. It also had the welcome side-effect of encouraging RP.
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  #20  
Old 07-02-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus View Post
Three people who know what they're doing could hit 20 inside of a week very easily.
A day*

Though the squad makeup was Cleric, Favored Soul, and Warlock... But it has been done.

Edit; my point being I feel like leveling IS too fast.

But I also feel that's a biproduct of any server where killing re spawning mobs grants XP. You can't adjust the current system, unless you made it annoying/a pointlessly long and agonizing grind to get anywhere.
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