News   About   FAQ   Statistics   Player Options   Downloads   Gallery   Forums   Donate   Wiki   Staff   Jobs   Links   Contact Us

Go Back   Sundren Forums > Sundren Community > Off-Topic
Register Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Off-Topic Talk about whatever.


Welcome to the Sundren Forums forums.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 04-30-2016
jarlexel jarlexel is offline
Nobility
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 373
Rep Power: 59
jarlexel is a jewel in the roughjarlexel is a jewel in the roughjarlexel is a jewel in the rough
I think a Dark Sun setting would be neat. Magic is outlawed because it's destroying the last oasis, metal is extremely rare, and there is only one city to where people can survive.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-30-2016
Thief Of Navarre's Avatar
Thief Of Navarre Thief Of Navarre is offline
Legendary Hero
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
Posts: 2,178
Rep Power: 130
Thief Of Navarre is a name known to allThief Of Navarre is a name known to allThief Of Navarre is a name known to allThief Of Navarre is a name known to allThief Of Navarre is a name known to allThief Of Navarre is a name known to all
Of all the games I've played over the years, the look and feel of a place I liked the best was Morrowind. The stark beauty of it, the morose & suspicious nature of it's inhbitants, the ash mountain, the odd buildings, the slave camps (yes, I know slavery is bad). I don't think I've ever been visually and emotional awed by a game since that.

*edit* I'm not saying looks are everything (otherwise I clearly wouldn't play RPGs) but the feel of a place can hold your interest much the same as solid mechanics or a good story.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by roguethree View Post
If I had my way, clerics would have spell failure and a d6 hit die. And Favored Souls wouldn't exist.

Last edited by Thief Of Navarre; 04-30-2016 at 12:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-01-2016
Nyssis's Avatar
Nyssis Nyssis is offline
Nobility
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 398
Rep Power: 151
Nyssis has a brilliant futureNyssis has a brilliant futureNyssis has a brilliant futureNyssis has a brilliant futureNyssis has a brilliant futureNyssis has a brilliant futureNyssis has a brilliant futureNyssis has a brilliant futureNyssis has a brilliant futureNyssis has a brilliant futureNyssis has a brilliant future
I'd appreciate a darker, grittier fantasy setting with magic being especially rare and monsters being especially fearsome. I wouldn't mind if it pulled away from D&D at its foundation, either: I feel that D&D often winds up too limiting with what players are capable of, and Sundren has already chipped away at that mold by injecting its own changes.

Above all else, I still think of Sundren as a roleplaying outlet with or without NWN2. The environment, mood, crafting and character appearance customization (give me sliders or give me death) are my biggest priorities. I don't care about vertical progression as much as having a character that looks the way I want them to.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-10-2016
Doubtful's Avatar
Doubtful Doubtful is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,821
Rep Power: 50
Doubtful has a reputation beyond reputeDoubtful has a reputation beyond reputeDoubtful has a reputation beyond reputeDoubtful has a reputation beyond reputeDoubtful has a reputation beyond reputeDoubtful has a reputation beyond reputeDoubtful has a reputation beyond reputeDoubtful has a reputation beyond reputeDoubtful has a reputation beyond reputeDoubtful has a reputation beyond reputeDoubtful has a reputation beyond repute
Alright! Time for that Longer Post I threatened.

A warning: I may go on quite a bit, but rather than try and flesh it out more or loose more time to proof reading I thought I’d post it.

As an aside I once put together a short questionnaire regarding a what people would like to see from a seperate game. It was only half serious and never finished, I’ll see about putting what I up on Survey Monkey.

Setting
No more D&D. Huge litigious Hasbro based licensing issues aside FR D&D just comes with far, far too much baggage. Plus the setting is a sprawling, incoherent many-versioned mess. Starting fresh allows you to just get the fuck on with making something memorable rather than having to listen to others opinions on what stuff you've chosen to ignore. Plus no Drizzt.

In all honesty I’m really bored of the whole medieval fantasy thing, there has to be more to play than swords and sorcery or post apocalyptic scenarios. I’d love to see an industrial revolution / Napoleonic (best not invoke Steampunk, because that’s just a parody of what it was) RPG or nice hard Sci-Fi setting. Hells, even a WWII or modern setting would do although I see those as more of a struggle to build an open RPG world around.

Generally I'd want the core value to be the interactive storytelling assisted by a DM team (though backed up by lots of on DM stuff). There are many, many, many 'Action RPG' / RPG Lite style games out there already while there are only a tiny single hand of titles that have the DM/Player makeup. I'd rather cater to a niche market (the market we've been serving these past many years) where our development voice would carry, than be lost amid the fuzzy white noise of the Action RPG group.

Setting wise I can't help but feel a large part of the problem with many servers is that the world they've set up (and yes, this includes us) is just far to established. It's easy to get tied up in nation/world building and before you know it all of your institutions have existed for ages, the world's stablish and getting in or changing anything can feel intimidating, out of character or like a chore. Then, for all of your world building people just go to the fringes, after all that's where most of the adventure is and where most of the character types tend to congregate.

Stick the game location at a natural confrontation point - A newish colony on the frontier or remote and fairly unexplored location, the kind of place enthusiastic idealists volunteer to go and useless, unpopular or otherwise troublesome employees get sent plus all manner of indigenous wildlife and so on then sprinkle all over with conflicting groups and personalities.

No need to try and shoehorn in any dark or grim setting overtones, just edging toward the brutal and violent reality of life at the edges of the world should do it.

Action RPG vs Traditional RPG
Action RPGs are almost always about collecting cool and awesome powers, more flashy ways to explodify NPCs. That’s fine for single player or small group play, but chuck it into a story based RP setting? It's bad enough on Sundren at some times when you've got a bunch of epic level characters chilling out in a single place, let alone when you super-power it with the Action RPG set. Once you've got more than few of the Specially Unique Chosen Ones hanging out a few the Last of Their Kind and their Touched by the Gods buddies types it all takes on the air of some Absurdist play.

A good comparison might be GoT vs The Avengers - GoT is appealing because it’s brutal, unforgiving and has that whole ‘no-one is safe’ vibe going on, you watch it because it’s got a bunch of storylines and that ‘will they survive intact?’ type edge. The Avengers (films) on the other hand are appealing because they’re flashy and fun to look at, it’s huge glitzy spectacle followed by huge glitzy spectacle, While the heroes might face an occasional challenge they’ll always overcome it without much trouble (maybe they’ll need to look pensive for a few moments).

Keeping it human scale and focused on normal people trying to do extraordinary things is much more fun than having a bunch of super humans toddling about all being equally exceptional.

Magic
While Sundren may be high magic (despite what we say) I'd prefer a sequel to be low magic, probably beyond the reach of most. I wouldn’t really want Magic use to be something most people would have access to, simply because if it’s something that’s freely available to players then it will cease to be rare no matter what the Lore says. Keep it rare, scary and something the players are largely up against rather than working with.

Visuals
Should look current. Not necessarily photorealistic but that sort of happy state where things have an air of the real world without falling into the heavy stylisation you see in a lot of titles or nor the extremely intensive to create pursuit of absolute photorealism. I’d expect the capabilities of a modern engine to be used though, so PBR all the way.

Boob windows, babe-armour. Kind of. It might be there so if you fancy you can get your Zardoz style warrior on you can, just don't be surprised when things made for exposing flesh turn out to offer you no protection at all in a fight.

Otherwise, bring on the tailor dummies and the customisation options. It’s a pretty sad state of affairs when you can’t customise a character to look at least largely how you envisage them looking. Being able to carry on customising your appearance following creation (at least in terms of clothes and possible hair) is a must.

Classes
None, can’t stand the damn things. Instead it’s a pick-your-own menagerie.

Attributes
Attributes are set at character creation and largely unchanged thereafter. Attributes feed into skills, abilities and perks.

Skills
Skills, should be meaningful and have an actual use. I like the notion of various chunks of the game being unavailable to those without the right skills. Not to say if you don’t have the right skills you can’t play, more that the game experience will vary on what skills you have and how you can approach solutions to scripted challenges and DM run ones. If you can make peace and talk your way into being buddies with NPC factions you should be able to have fun and earn rewards for doing so, if you’re gung ho and just like to shoot/stab/immolate your way through NPCs then you should be able to have fun and earn rewards for doing so.

Skills get better through use and are the driving force behind leveling, HP should also be considered a skill - Getting into fights and surviving largely intact will increase your ability to stay alive longer in fights in the future.
__________________
It is the greatest of all mistakes to do nothing because you can only do a little - Do what you can.
Sydney Smith.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-10-2016
Doubtful's Avatar
Doubtful Doubtful is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,821
Rep Power: 50
Doubtful has a reputation beyond reputeDoubtful has a reputation beyond reputeDoubtful has a reputation beyond reputeDoubtful has a reputation beyond reputeDoubtful has a reputation beyond reputeDoubtful has a reputation beyond reputeDoubtful has a reputation beyond reputeDoubtful has a reputation beyond reputeDoubtful has a reputation beyond reputeDoubtful has a reputation beyond reputeDoubtful has a reputation beyond repute
Levels
Not really (despite me referring to higher level a few times in this document). Characters can choose a new perk every X number of skill point raises. While it might seem attractive to grab loads of low-hanging skill points to quickly load up on perks this tactic will mean that the chance to specialise becomes a lot harder. Specialisation in a skill or series of skills is where a character's power lies.

Combat
There needs to be stuff to do. Skill/round based combat can get pretty boring pretty quickly if all you’ve got to do is click on an enemy and wait for your numbers to beat their numbers. Lots of per-combat abilities combined with intelligent weapon choices, battlefield positioning and the usefulness of having friends (NPC or real) should be used to keep things from getting boring.

Weapon Specialities need to be more than numbers - You need to be able to do special stuff with your specialities!
Grapple opponents, head butt, shield slam, bite, groin kick (Krav Maga!), throat punch, eye gouge, knee kick, arm lock, surprise punch, pistol whip, face/rib stamp (if opponent knocked down). Make combat less showboat, more desperate-for-survival.
Weapons relate to armour. Someone unarmoured with a kitchen knife vs someone in full plate with a sword is only really going to end one way. Unless, the knife wielder is some crazy experienced and very lucky person who can successfully not get stabbed, grapple their opponent to the floor and stab them in the eye slot.

AI and dynamic worlds.
Man, I love them behaviour trees. Until a fairly recently I never really got interested in that side of things, but these days I loves it.

Having a living, breathing, storyable world would be my top priority - That extends to the behaviours and attributes of the various NPCs and creatures that inhabit the world. I’d love to see hostile actions being only one of a range of tools at your disposal.

First step; spawns need to have behaviours and needs. Combat isn’t the default option for most creatures, it shouldn’t need to be ingame either.

So, animals should have appropriate behaviours - Yes, if they’re hungry and you’re looking worn down then there’s a chance they may attack. But if they have no particular need (not showing off, not hungry, you’re not a threat, no young nearby, they’re not defending territory, etc) then they’ll likely ignore you or move away unless you provoke them. Even if they consider you hostile they may not actually attack, they might posture and threaten to get you to go away, or they could rip your face off and eat it. A character with the right skills/perks could also get visual cues regarding the animal's mood or likely behaviours.

Interaction with intelligent groups would be more complex as there’d need to be more values than just the creatures immediate needs to take into account but the essence is the same - they’ll just be able to use different tactics to fulfil their needs and have different spawn groups with their own methods of achieving their goals (War Party, Hunter/Gatherer, Trader, Patrol, etc)

For instance let’s say you encounter a pack of intelligent humanoids. It’s your first time meeting them and they’re largely neutral, the spawned group is hunting for a certain object type - They’ll keep a distance to start then taking into account you and your party's threat rating (based on your health, equipment, group size. Can be raised or lowered briefly using non verbal communications, because that shit’s underused). So they might investigate, threaten, ignore or flee. What you do in response will influence the final outcome. Ultimately you could develop a friendly relationship with them, (much more likely if you’re visibly carrying what they’re after), or even influence their spawning styles through your actions (sell them lots of higher tier gear and they’ll start spawning with it, groups under constant attack will be more likely to spawn War Parties, etc).

Sometimes you might get a quest that means you need to do something you can’t actually do due to mechanical or character-moral reasons (like have a conversation with a faction you’re KOS with, or go slaughter the tribes folk of that you’re BFFs with), and that’s great! There should be ways around it or at the very least the option to go back and say ‘I can’t/won’t’

The goal is simple, create a database driven ecosystem for intelligent NPCs and a less dynamic one for less intelligent NPCs that will make the setting feel more alive than the traditional Red v Blue approach.

Death
A toughy. I like the death=death approach where making a fatal mistake or chain of mistakes means some real setbacks - XCOM without saves (except on exit), FTL, Convoy, Teleglitch - All great games and great fun largely because of the difficulty. But, and it’s a big but, the time investment for these games is fairly low, you can rattle through them in a few hours / half a day. Death is a threat, but it’s not a huge loss if it happens. They’re all also Single Player games.

It’s unlikely the same approach would work that well in an multiplayer RP environment where you’d expect players to be investing a much larger amount of their time and to build much more of a relationship with their own characters and the others around them. While GoT style sudden death and drama works well for books and TV the general consensus amongst players here in the past has been either “It’s fine so long as it only happens to other people” or “It’s not a good idea at all”.

So, death needs to be a threat, but not a terribly terrible threat. No-one really wants to lose all their hard work and effort to a bunch of random crits or being noob-stomped by a bored high level player.

Things that might work:
  • Death is a Group Thing. If you’re out in a party you’re not dead until everyone in your party is dead or has fled beyond a certain radius. If you have no friends, hire some NPC goons. Following your fight anyone who ‘died’ will recover with ⅓ health and possible minor injuries (pulled quad, sprained wrist, sore back, sword elbow, etc) that have a short term impact.
  • Die alone, or your whole party gets wiped you’ll respawn in the local charnel pit / corpse dump with ¼ health (and possibly some vermin to contend with), some of your equipment and most of your cash missing and a chance of severe injury.
  • ‘Precious item’ tags (two or three per character, non transferable) which prevent that particular item from being removed on death or looted from your body by NPCs.
  • You can insure non unique items (if you’ve the cash) so that if lost on death you can recover them at the insurer.
  • Cash and items are bankable, so don’t go lugging around what you don’t need.
  • No XP/Skill loss, but risk of severe injury following death which can have some long term effects on your character (blind in one eye, concussion, broken fingers, arrow to the knee, slipped disk, horribly scarred, etc, etc)

Stealth
True LOS based stealth combined with skills and perks.

LOS bases on rays attached to head bone of characters, larger tunnel in front, small radius all around.

Rays need to detect x number of points on a rig to recognise it (just a foot won't do, for example) as a creature.

Stealth skills/feats increase ‘linger’ time, or the time needed for rig points to be visible (this is opposed by spotting skills and feats that decrease linger time). Higher skill values can take longer to travel between coverage.

Someone with no skill can hide by just being physically hidden, someone skilled at stealth could move around.
__________________
It is the greatest of all mistakes to do nothing because you can only do a little - Do what you can.
Sydney Smith.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-10-2016
Doubtful's Avatar
Doubtful Doubtful is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,821
Rep Power: 50
Doubtful has a reputation beyond reputeDoubtful has a reputation beyond reputeDoubtful has a reputation beyond reputeDoubtful has a reputation beyond reputeDoubtful has a reputation beyond reputeDoubtful has a reputation beyond reputeDoubtful has a reputation beyond reputeDoubtful has a reputation beyond reputeDoubtful has a reputation beyond reputeDoubtful has a reputation beyond reputeDoubtful has a reputation beyond repute
Well, there may have been a bit of data loss in the recent migration of data from the old server to the next.

Who knows which mysterious person could possibly have been responsible for something as lacking in foresight as opening the closed forums without checking with Saulus as to why they were closed in the first place. It'll forever remain a mystery, all we do know is that whoever it was was dashingly handsome, intelligent, erudite and humble.

Ahem, that issue aside I've reposted my brain oozings above and as before I offer up the Survey Monkey link for my half assed Persistent World Survey - Feel free to pass it around if you know people who might have opinions on this kind of thing.


Huge thanks to those who've taken the survey thus far - Much appreciated!

So, if you could add one feature to a Future Sundren. What would it be?
__________________
It is the greatest of all mistakes to do nothing because you can only do a little - Do what you can.
Sydney Smith.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-10-2016
Thief Of Navarre's Avatar
Thief Of Navarre Thief Of Navarre is offline
Legendary Hero
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
Posts: 2,178
Rep Power: 130
Thief Of Navarre is a name known to allThief Of Navarre is a name known to allThief Of Navarre is a name known to allThief Of Navarre is a name known to allThief Of Navarre is a name known to allThief Of Navarre is a name known to all
Hmmm, add one feature to sundren eh? Perhaps on the fly DMing. Let's say there isn't a DM online: the ability for a player to log in with limited DM powers to craft a trivial plot line that makes it more than just bashing monsters. Be it voice an NPC, create more monsters if the party is fabulous and needs taking down a peg or just playing the enigmatic crackling fire.

That being said we now have more DMs in different time zones so it might not even be necessary
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by roguethree View Post
If I had my way, clerics would have spell failure and a d6 hit die. And Favored Souls wouldn't exist.

Last edited by Thief Of Navarre; 05-11-2016 at 10:32 AM. Reason: Brain fart
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-10-2016
Redjack's Avatar
Redjack Redjack is offline
Hero
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Northern California
Posts: 697
Rep Power: 131
Redjack has a brilliant futureRedjack has a brilliant futureRedjack has a brilliant futureRedjack has a brilliant futureRedjack has a brilliant futureRedjack has a brilliant futureRedjack has a brilliant futureRedjack has a brilliant future
This would be fantastic! Is this possible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thief Of Navarre View Post
Hmmm, add one feature to sundren eh? Perhaps on the fly DMing. Let's say there isn't a DM online: the ability for a player to log in with limited DM powers to craft a trivial plot line that makes it more than just bashing monsters. Be it voice an NPC, create more monsters if the party is fabulous and needs taking down a peg or just playing the enigmatic crackling fire.

That being said we now have more DMs in different time zones so it might even be necessary
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-19-2016
thaelis's Avatar
thaelis thaelis is offline
Legendary Hero
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,347
Rep Power: 143
thaelis has a brilliant futurethaelis has a brilliant futurethaelis has a brilliant futurethaelis has a brilliant futurethaelis has a brilliant futurethaelis has a brilliant futurethaelis has a brilliant futurethaelis has a brilliant futurethaelis has a brilliant futurethaelis has a brilliant futurethaelis has a brilliant future
Pretty much agree with everything Doubt said, especially Death! I feel that death is far too forgiving, but at the same time you need a way to protect your 'once in a lifetime' special item from being incinerated by the death script.

As for AI/NPC's, one of the things I loved about Skyrim was how you can give people armor/weapons and they would immediately equip them if it was better than their own. It would be fantastic if you could do the same in Sundren. It would both provide a purpose to armorers/weaponsmiths, and a use for all those junk low-level items you find.

As for magic, I'd be all for a lower magic setting. Magic items rarely, or never, sold in stores. Stores could sell mastercrafted or special material weapons for high prices instead. e.g. Meteorite-sourced metal etc.

I'd also be fine with my Wizard being a low-level dabbler, having to pay with his own blood/health for some minor tips from demons and supernatural abilities (I'm thinking more like Banishment and Jedi mind tricks rather than Fireballs).

I'd love to see a system where pluses don't stack so high, and you get per day/per encounter/at will abilities instead. I dislike that a character can for example dump their Wisdom to 8, then boost their Will save to +20 very easily.

In short, min-maxing should not produce all-rounder characters with no weaknesses!

Imo a new setting would be great. Most established settings have been around for too long and hence come with too much baggage.
__________________
Character: Thalanis Moonshadow

Previous Characters: Altherion Goldleaf, Silverleaf, Lanathas El'thariel
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05-22-2016
Farmboy2003's Avatar
Farmboy2003 Farmboy2003 is offline
Hero
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Denmark
Posts: 549
Rep Power: 101
Farmboy2003 has a brilliant futureFarmboy2003 has a brilliant futureFarmboy2003 has a brilliant futureFarmboy2003 has a brilliant futureFarmboy2003 has a brilliant futureFarmboy2003 has a brilliant futureFarmboy2003 has a brilliant futureFarmboy2003 has a brilliant future
Man, I suddenly feel like playing a non dnd game after doubts rants.
__________________
My'athvin Simaryl - Elven Mhaornathil
Mhaenal Ahmaquissar - Minstrel Knight
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Sundren - Archive - Top  
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:22 PM.
Sundren.org Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
All content of this website is property of its respective owners: Webmaster