News   About   FAQ   Statistics   Player Options   Downloads   Gallery   Forums   Donate   Wiki   Staff   Jobs   Links   Contact Us

Go Back   Sundren Forums > Sundren Website > News
Register Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

News Sundren news archive of news on the main page.


Welcome to the Sundren Forums forums.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 09-30-2015
Kitsunestume's Avatar
Kitsunestume Kitsunestume is offline
Developer
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tech-Central, California (UTC-8)
Posts: 1,399
Rep Power: 100
Kitsunestume has a brilliant futureKitsunestume has a brilliant futureKitsunestume has a brilliant futureKitsunestume has a brilliant futureKitsunestume has a brilliant futureKitsunestume has a brilliant futureKitsunestume has a brilliant futureKitsunestume has a brilliant futureKitsunestume has a brilliant futureKitsunestume has a brilliant futureKitsunestume has a brilliant future
With all due respect, Fuzzy, the spells to which Thealis is reffering is combat damage spells. As I understood it, Chime mostly used enchantment spells, which are unaffected by total HP.

Since all creatures use maximum HD, they have usually 40-50% more HP than they would in P&P, where each hit-die is rolled, usually resulting in 'average HP' for each monster being half of the die-size times the number of die, instead of the maximum die-roll times the number of die.

Since offensive damage spells (blast-casts) were not modified to suit, they still deal half their damage on average. Where in P&P a fireball worth 10d6 (average 33, max 60) damage has a reasonable chance of killing a level 10 rogue (10 d6 HD: average 33, max 60 + con) who failed save, it never will one-shot in NWN2 (rogue has 60+con HP).

Such is what is meant by spells in NWN2 being less effective.

Power-Words are also significantly nerved, for similar reasons (level 20 fighter laughs at your feeble 100 HP requirement for PW: Kill and PW: Petrify, even after two IGMS to the face) . Any spell not reliant on direct HP for effect, however, is generally unaffacted.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-30-2015
jarlexel jarlexel is offline
Nobility
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 373
Rep Power: 54
jarlexel is a jewel in the roughjarlexel is a jewel in the roughjarlexel is a jewel in the rough
Really looking forward to this going live, I miss real RP, plots and story.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-30-2015
Torgar Torgar is offline
Nobility
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 397
Rep Power: 105
Torgar has a brilliant futureTorgar has a brilliant futureTorgar has a brilliant futureTorgar has a brilliant futureTorgar has a brilliant futureTorgar has a brilliant futureTorgar has a brilliant futureTorgar has a brilliant futureTorgar has a brilliant future
A level 10 rogue with only 33 hp was made wrong. Means a 10 con, which is pretty much purposefully making a low HP character weaker on purpose. With an average con of 14 with gear, he'd have (33+2/lvl[20]=53) HP, which is enough to survive almost any fireball thrown at him on the low chance he fails that save. I actually don't see the downside to someone being unable to murder large mobs with low level magic. To be honest, most of the monsters on the server we all fight average around 140-200 hp per mob at the level 20 area, excluding anything in IWD content. Which, as anyone who has played level 15+ DND will tell you, is not super high HP. A caster specializing in artillery magic shouldn't be able to one shot the field with one spell. What he DOES is score a huge chunk off the enemy to start before they close the gap, thus massively shortening the fight and still overall doing more damage in the fight then the fighter does, since he's cleaning up what the caster left. There is a reason almost every spell does either 1d4/lvl or 1d6/lvl of damage, and it's specifically so that monsters and players are likely to SURVIVE being hit by one at full HP.

All I am saying is that the damaging magic is fine where it is. Creature HP isn't really that far outside of our capability for them to contribute a LOT to the fight. Enchanters and illusionists are save for nothing, so are necromancers too for the most part. Transmuters too. Basically every other school of magic is save for nothing, or save for a minimal effect. No other school of magic goes "My spell is save for half, which can still be a solid number of damage points" or even "You get no save, you take damage period." Only evokers and the conjurers, the two schools specializing in damage numbers, do this. They are doing just fine with damage.

As for the level 20 fighter being safe from a PW after two IGMS's....good. If a fighter can not soak, with gear and not even that great a CON score, an average of 150 damage and still have over 100 hp left, then he's a paper-mache of a fighter. And I mean that in PNP DND, not just on the server. Most fighters should be around upper 260's or near 300 hp as a PNP character with gear, since PNP gear is FAR superior to NWN2 gear.

But, don't fret, because with the LVL cap going back to a soft 15, power word spells will still be useful against them after a good solid nuke to the face. But I don't think spells need to be reworked so that artillery mage's can solo the content with one spell per group. Our content should encourage grouping to survive it, and I believe it does so with the HD being maximized for mobs and players.
__________________
Tigen Amastacia: Died in events so you didn't have to.

Quintin Ulsteris: Nice-guy Legion engineer, deceased son of House Ulsteris.

Clandriel Cain: AKA "Fire-eyes" AKA "Demon hunter" AKA "OH MY GOD, WHY IS HE STILL STABBING ME!!??"
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-30-2015
Kasso's Avatar
Kasso Kasso is offline
Legendary Hero
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 936
Rep Power: 145
Kasso has a brilliant futureKasso has a brilliant futureKasso has a brilliant futureKasso has a brilliant futureKasso has a brilliant futureKasso has a brilliant futureKasso has a brilliant futureKasso has a brilliant futureKasso has a brilliant future
Something that could be done to help evokers and conjurer's out without seeing a gigantic power creep (By like, doubling the damage they do) would be giving a buff to the Spell Focus feats to give +2 DC each instead of +1. This wouldn't offer a buff to hard no-save damage spells like IGMS, but it would offer 10% more consistent numbers for fireballs and a number of the lesser-used evocation spells.

In PvP every class / build has some means of mitigating evokers anyways, be it improved evasion, energy immunity, or just a burly mountain of HP, or some combination of two or even three of the aforementioned.

I do feel like the damage school in terms of /reflex save spells is a little on the weak side right now, but I can also see how over buffing it could turn into a new series of 'win button' scenario's for casters in PvP.

I'm less concerned about how good they are at grinding mobs, there are certainly better classes to contribute to/solo a dungeon run at high levels then a wizard/sorcerer focused around evocation, even with DC or dice buffs.
__________________
Aesa Volsung - Uthgardt Warrior

Formerly
Gabrielle Atkinson - Mage Priest of Torm
Anasath Zesiro - Mulhorandi Morninglord
Kyoko - Tiefling Diviner
Yashedeus - Cyrist Warlock
Aramil - Nutter

GMT -8
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-30-2015
Redjack's Avatar
Redjack Redjack is offline
Hero
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Northern California
Posts: 699
Rep Power: 126
Redjack has a brilliant futureRedjack has a brilliant futureRedjack has a brilliant futureRedjack has a brilliant futureRedjack has a brilliant futureRedjack has a brilliant futureRedjack has a brilliant futureRedjack has a brilliant future
I'm guessing Clive is/was the most powerful divine caster ever on the server.
Offensive spells were never a worry for him, he feared swords wielded by paladin's and in turn killed with a sword most of the time.
Offensive magic isn't a threat, debuffing was the most dangerous magic. But a wizard can't debuff enough before he dies under a sword.
Magic isn't over powered. Sure if you stand around and let a character buff up or cast spell after spell again you then you will die. A good adamantine weapon is the answer to any battle.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 10-01-2015
Elusa's Avatar
Elusa Elusa is offline
Hero
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Georgia UTC -4
Posts: 532
Rep Power: 140
Elusa has much to be proud ofElusa has much to be proud ofElusa has much to be proud ofElusa has much to be proud ofElusa has much to be proud ofElusa has much to be proud ofElusa has much to be proud of
My point by point comments. I apologize in advance if I'm blunt at any point, I'm just giving my honest opinion:

1. We're moving the level cap back. Current projection is a soft 15 (monsters, RP XP) and a hard 20 (advancement quests, DM XP). Rather than delevel existing PCs, it's much easier to start with new. I feel this is fine. I'm old enough to remember when there was a hard cap at 15, and there were no issues. I will say, I'd like for 20 to be obtainable for non-power builds. Before/currently, 23 is tempting but basically unobtainable without being able to consistently grind the high level repeatable quest. There's DM exp, but I never once got enough exp from a DM to realistically reach higher than 21.

2. We're untangling snarled story threads. Moving the timeline and clearing out old PCs lets us start fresh and gives more PCs an opportunity to get involved in what's going on. Yeah, it's probably about time for this. I would hope/presume this means no re-creating old characters. I'd like to see a truly fresh start.

3. We're redoing item balance. A new cap means new item standards, and this will get rid of all of the old items we don't want running around anymore. Please remember to remove all the junk items from the loot tables. Those chain gloves.

1. Finished crafting. All recipes will be functional, all materials will be accessible through drops, nodes, and stores. Crafting will be a reliable way to keep your character competitively equipped. Nothing needs to be said, except that I hope this finally includes skills such as cooking. Really looking forward to this.

2. Class improvements. Look for further boosts to Rogues, Barbarians, and a host of prestige classes. I'll personally be keeping an eye on MoMF. It's one of the few PrCs unique to Sundren and I really, really enjoy the RP chances it gives, but it suffers in combat, especially if you lower the level cap.

3. Faction reorganization. Factions will be based around the four major cities (Sundren City, Port Avanthyr, Aquor, Sestra). Again biased by previous characters I've made, but I'm hoping druids and rangers still have a faction and ideally a store.

4. Competitive faction control points. We're developing a system that will allow factions to dynamically compete for control of certain areas. Capturing these areas will be a means to increase faction reputation and will provide access to special stores, crafting resource nodes, and even dungeons. I'm mostly hoping this doesn't create excessive PvP, but I consider this a really delicate change, because players shouldn't be discouraged from joining underplayed factions or feel forced to join a particular faction for the opposite reason.

5. Deeper dungeons. You thought killing the Goblin Chief was the end of it? Think again. Nothing needs to be said here, more content is always praise-worthy.
__________________
Dalian - Shapeshifter of the Tuatha Dé Dúlra
"My true identity goes beyond the outer roles I play. It transcends the Self."
UTC -4
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-01-2015
thaelis's Avatar
thaelis thaelis is offline
Legendary Hero
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,354
Rep Power: 138
thaelis has a brilliant futurethaelis has a brilliant futurethaelis has a brilliant futurethaelis has a brilliant futurethaelis has a brilliant futurethaelis has a brilliant futurethaelis has a brilliant futurethaelis has a brilliant futurethaelis has a brilliant futurethaelis has a brilliant futurethaelis has a brilliant future
Re: Magic debate, I think Torgar and me/Kit are arguing from very different perspectives. I don't engage in PvP very often. I find that in PvP whoever gets in the first shot generally wins, whether it's the Wizard with a Bigby's or the Fighter with an attack bonus that greatly exceeds the AC of a buffed Sor/Wiz.

My gripe with magic is that it isn't very useful in a party except for buffing then following along invisibly.

Evocation spells do not in any way shape or form do "solid damage". A meteor swarm does about 84 damage, 42 if they save. If you cast three of them you can kill most of the enemies in an average spawn in Whurest. Don't believe me? Go and test it yourself. Meanwhile, you damage your own party, unless of course you prepared five Energy Immunity spells.

Magic is already fine for soloing, albeit using cheesy spells bugged to give 20 AC higher than they should. Wouldn't removing the cheese from Shapeshift alone more than balance out a small boost to offensive spells?

EDIT: Sorry for derailing!! OP is awesome and of course in all respects praiseworthy! This is my final post, promise
__________________
Character: Thalanis Moonshadow

Previous Characters: Altherion Goldleaf, Silverleaf, Lanathas El'thariel
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-01-2015
Kitsunestume's Avatar
Kitsunestume Kitsunestume is offline
Developer
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tech-Central, California (UTC-8)
Posts: 1,399
Rep Power: 100
Kitsunestume has a brilliant futureKitsunestume has a brilliant futureKitsunestume has a brilliant futureKitsunestume has a brilliant futureKitsunestume has a brilliant futureKitsunestume has a brilliant futureKitsunestume has a brilliant futureKitsunestume has a brilliant futureKitsunestume has a brilliant futureKitsunestume has a brilliant futureKitsunestume has a brilliant future
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaelis View Post
My gripe with magic is that it isn't very useful in a party except for buffing then following along invisibly.
Or buffing everyone and taking a non-spell-caster role. GMW and IMA contribute much more to a delve than any blast spell I have observed (short of maximized IGMS in very particular scenarios), due to the matter of duration and reliability.


On the matter at hand, will Faction Control Points have a hook into GBX' Faction Wealth system? I remember that being implemented with the intent that it could fluctuate depending on politics, but I never saw that happen.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 10-01-2015
Fuzziebunny Fuzziebunny is offline
Hero
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 546
Rep Power: 63
Fuzziebunny is a splendid one to beholdFuzziebunny is a splendid one to beholdFuzziebunny is a splendid one to beholdFuzziebunny is a splendid one to beholdFuzziebunny is a splendid one to beholdFuzziebunny is a splendid one to beholdFuzziebunny is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsunestume View Post
Or buffing everyone and taking a non-spell-caster role. GMW and IMA contribute much more to a delve than any blast spell I have observed (short of maximized IGMS in very particular scenarios), due to the matter of duration and reliability.
.
You don't need a fireball to the face to help a party. There is sleep, hold monster, slophsism, illusionary wall, that one spell that lets you move party members, flesh to stone. These are just the ones right off the top of my head too. The sky is the limit with mages. There are tons of other things mages can do other than buff.


But, you are correct about being on topic. I'm sorry! I am pretty excited about the new faction set up. I and interested to see if there will be alignment associated with cities or how all that will play out.

I am really excited to see item rebalancing too. Does this mean Sundren will be a low magic server or is that yet to be determined?
__________________
GMT -9
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 10-01-2015
jarlexel jarlexel is offline
Nobility
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 373
Rep Power: 54
jarlexel is a jewel in the roughjarlexel is a jewel in the roughjarlexel is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elusa View Post
4. Competitive faction control points. We're developing a system that will allow factions to dynamically compete for control of certain areas. Capturing these areas will be a means to increase faction reputation and will provide access to special stores, crafting resource nodes, and even dungeons. I'm mostly hoping this doesn't create excessive PvP, but I consider this a really delicate change, because players shouldn't be discouraged from joining underplayed factions or feel forced to join a particular faction for the opposite reason.
I been meeting some old old Sundren players throughout all the active servers that are around. They wear the faction armor and get Pvped and more so after they are outed. I really like the Competitive faction control system, that sounds like lots of fun, but it would be really really cool if the Pvp can be kept on the battlefield even if it's a little bit cheesy having public places that are not open pvp.

Pickpocket: please get rid of that, met a person who played here six years ago and only for a day due to some jerk stealing her weapons and she could not afford new ones.

This is a really nice server, the amount of work that was put into it is just nuts, was talking to a mapper for Dalelands and she said she could never make things as beautiful they are here. My Bottom line is: lets do things that will bring people back and keep them from leaving.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Sundren - Archive - Top  
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:58 AM.
Sundren.org Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
All content of this website is property of its respective owners: Webmaster