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  #1  
Old 04-13-2016
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Heart Warder (non-good) / Seductress

I was thinking it would be nice to have non-good (evil?) version of the Heart Warder much like the Black Guard is to the Paladin.


  • “Lips of the temptress” – Mind control like the Vampire Char based
  • “Courage / False confidence / Inspiration” - provides either +/- to skills or AB/Dam like a low-level Bard.
  • “Rage” – would force anyone under “Lips of the temptress” in a rage if anyone causes harm to the Seductress (and if possible cause them to attack).
  • “Allure” - +1 Char every 3 or 5 levels


Basically this Class would be a support class with flavor. Was looking for a class that would be the “woman behind the man” / "A scorned heart".



Thoughts / Suggestions?
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Last edited by Cornuto; 04-14-2016 at 08:46 PM.
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Old 04-13-2016
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My 2 cents:

Heartwarder is the specialty priest of Sune, opening it up to other gods or changing it's alignment would go against established lore, and it would open up a can of worms about the other deity locked classes.
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Old 04-13-2016
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I concur with Asura. While I appreciate sundren itself isn't strictly canon, Opening up speciality priests as their own prestige class is a bit different to let's say getting rid of the racial requirement on Stalwart defender.
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Old 04-13-2016
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I referenced Heart Warder just to set the mood / provide similarities. The class does not have to be related to a given Deity.

Does the Heart Warder class get spells? If so I was not thinking of this class getting any divine intervention.
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Elandra: A former Red Blade, now roams the wilderness with the Lone wolf as her guide
Alexandra: Ever faithful (just shy of a Zealot)
Yodglum: May Kossuth's flame light your way and burn those in it!
Ash: Dusty old miner of still looking for the "mother load" on Exigo's stag

Shaving kittens: not an official sport, but fun just the same

Last edited by Cornuto; 04-14-2016 at 08:47 PM.
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Old 04-13-2016
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There is another server that does allow Heartwarder without restrictions on being good or deity but now has zero population.
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Old 04-13-2016
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What you've proposed here could be ably accomplished by role playing a bard or sorcerer toward this theme.

So if anyone's looking to play a Seductress, just send me a PM, and I'll give you some ... uh ... tips.
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Old 04-13-2016
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I actually think this is a fantastic idea, and it is something I would have loved to have on my sorceress. Sune vs Auril shares many thematic similarities (though no literal connection in 3.5, just in 4E) to the Seelie vs. QoAaD, so Heartwarder always struck me as a fey themed sorcerer PrC. Some of its abilities literally reference the Seelie on Sundren. It always struck me that there should be an Unseelie option.

From a general content efficiency perspective, having a PrC that only works for one deity isn't the best thing in the world. Far better to have content that, while still being niche, facilitates more than one kind of character. To put it another way, I see only benefits and no harms of allowing this PrC.

TL;DR: Heartwarder is a fey themed PrC. Open it up to both Seelie and Unseelie themed characters.

EDIT: Lotus got his post in before I read it. Yeah, of course people could do this, and I did do this on Sundren the Old. Heartwarder gives a ridiculous mechanical advantage to any Sorceress going for a DC build, though, and it doesn't make sense from a mechanical point of view to only give this to one very specific kind of character.
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Old 04-13-2016
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Old 04-13-2016
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If I knew more details on the Heartwarder PrC, then I could provide more here. The problem with a bard/soc is that you cannot direct an effect on a single individual (Lips of the temptress). My thoughts were for the Seductress to ensnare other PrCs like a vampire does but without the gore/blood. To many IC variations to present here and while yes one can "say they are" but without the mechanics then it is purely up other players.

Clive ensnared El when she did not want to be and could not Alex when she was open to it. It is always good to have mechanics to back up you claims (play your Charterer Sheet?).
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Elandra: A former Red Blade, now roams the wilderness with the Lone wolf as her guide
Alexandra: Ever faithful (just shy of a Zealot)
Yodglum: May Kossuth's flame light your way and burn those in it!
Ash: Dusty old miner of still looking for the "mother load" on Exigo's stag

Shaving kittens: not an official sport, but fun just the same
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Old 04-13-2016
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Well, I will say that Sundren makes it possible to play an Enchantment focused Sorceress, which is what I did with Leikny. Without the wiki there is no way I am going to remember the names of the spells, but Sundren has enough custom ones, including that level 8 Save or Die enchantment spell that make it possible.

I suppose you're looking for something less blunt than Dominate, yes Nezz?
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